<div dir="ltr">Simon,<div><br></div><div>I am uncomfortable with your assertion, </div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">The interesting paradox here - which is often overlooked - is that the more that the contextual information is made public, the less likely it is to be faked.  </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">For example, I &quot;know&quot; everything there is to know about Justin Bieber - simply by Googling - which ironically makes it incredibly difficult for me to &quot;fake&quot; his identity, as there are several avenues to prove me wrong.</span></div></blockquote><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">I would argue that I could use the public information available for Justin Bieber to begin setting up accounts using his name and identity characteristics that would be under my control.  I could then use these accounts to substantiate the creation of additional accounts and masquerade as Mr. Bieber in various online venues.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">As for the value of relationships, I agree that there is value.  But it can be very difficult to use.  In LinkedIn, for example, when I am looking for a person, I can use relationships to try to narrow down my search.  For example, I can filter based on location (within 50 miles of London) or his current/former employer.  But in searching for people with common names, I often find that this does not help me because I don&#39;t know where the person lives or his employment history. </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">Furthermore, wouldn&#39;t using relationships require that we establish database fields for the most common relationships in order to filter on them?  But what fields need to be included?  If we just allow device &quot;owners&quot; to add ten arbitrary fields that they consider most important for their device, won&#39;t we be limited the search to exact matches -- eliminating the ability to perform proximity searches.  For example, if I enter the data &quot;2015&quot; would that be the year I deployed the sensor, the altitude of the location of the sensor, or the serial number of the sensor?  If I enter instead &quot;Serial Number = 2015&quot;, what will happen if someone seeking out my sensor searches for &quot;Part Number = 2015&quot; of &quot;S/N = 2015&quot;?</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">When the sensor changes owners (e.g., company A which owns the sensor is purchased by company B), will the owner be allowed to retain the data fields of the previous owner to keep everyone using the sensor from accessing it?  </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">I don&#39;t claim that these issues won&#39;t have solutions.  But as things get more complicated, the threat surface increases.  So there are consequences to this complexity -- whether through human error or evil intent.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px">Jeff</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------</div><div>Jeff Stollman<br><a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">stollman.j@gmail.com</a><br>1 202.683.8699<div><span style="line-height:1.5em;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="line-height:1.5em;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px">Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19px">Science advances one funeral at a time.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19px">                                    Max Planck</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Simon Moffatt <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:simon.moffatt@forgerock.com" target="_blank">simon.moffatt@forgerock.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Hi Ingo<br>
    <br>
    I think you make some subtly very powerful points here.  Uniqueness
    by static identifiers is difficult to uphold as you mention. 
    However, the powerful aspect is the relative context being applied,
    which results in local uniqueness.<br>
    <br>
    That context information, such as where you work and your city, not
    only helps reduce the noise and pollution of unrelated identities,
    but it also reduces the scope of knowledge to those who know what
    living in that city or working at that company actually means.<br>
    <br>
    The interesting paradox here - which is often overlooked - is that
    the more that the contextual information is made public, the less
    likely it is to be faked.  <br>
    <br>
    For example, I &quot;know&quot; everything there is to know about Justin
    Bieber - simply by Googling - which ironically makes it incredibly
    difficult for me to &quot;fake&quot; his identity, as there are several
    avenues to prove me wrong.<br>
    <br>
    The relationship aspect here is what helps not only identifier the
    person/thing/object but also verify it&#39;s existence and thus possible
    integrity.<br>
    <br>
    Simon<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 27/07/15 19:54,
      <a href="mailto:Ingo.Friese@telekom.de" target="_blank">Ingo.Friese@telekom.de</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      <div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">As
            we have already many IDs outside I doubt that we can propose
            a certain GUID. But of course you can use GUID if you need
            some kind of ID for your system.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Jeff,
            uniqueness is most likely not realistic. We don’t have no
            governance over all possible IDs. But the nice thing about
            identifying things with relationships is that identifier
            don’t have to be unique.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">There
            are several “Ingo Friese” outside, but since you know “works
            with T-Labs” and “Lives in Berlin” you can find me
            regardless of my identifier.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The
            identifier than is usually mapped to a address (e.g. IP
            address). And addresses are unique in their domain.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            j stollman [<a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com</a>] <br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Montag, 27. Juli 2015 20:45<br>
            <b>To:</b> Ranjan Jain (ranjain)<br>
            <b>Cc:</b> Friese, Ingo; <a href="mailto:afesta@alfweb.com" target="_blank">afesta@alfweb.com</a>;
            <a href="mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [DG-IDoT] Common identity standard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ranjan,<u></u><u></u></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">What would the GUID be based on?  How
              would you ensure its <u>U</u>niqueness across industry
              sectors, across the globe, and over time?<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
            <u></u><u></u></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">---------------------------------<u></u><u></u></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Jeff Stollman<br>
                    <a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">stollman.j@gmail.com</a><br>
                    <a href="tel:1%20202.683.8699" value="+12026838699" target="_blank">1 202.683.8699</a><u></u><u></u></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;background:white">Truth
                        never triumphs — its opponents just die out.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;background:white">Science
                        advances one funeral at a time.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;background:white"> 
                                                          Max Planck</span><u></u><u></u></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ranjan
              Jain (ranjain) &lt;<a href="mailto:ranjain@cisco.com" target="_blank">ranjain@cisco.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">All
                    great ideas so far.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">How
                    about using GUID as the identifier which can be tied
                    to a “thing” and this GUID can have multiple
                    personas based on the relationship? Ofcourse we’ll
                    need some kind of discovery service and the things
                    need to publish their meta data for usage but just
                    wanted to get initial assessment. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
                    </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href="mailto:Ingo.Friese@telekom.de" target="_blank">Ingo.Friese@telekom.de</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Ingo.Friese@telekom.de" target="_blank">Ingo.Friese@telekom.de</a>&gt;<br>
                    <b>Date: </b>Monday, July 27, 2015 at 7:50 AM<br>
                    <b>To: </b>&quot;<a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">stollman.j@gmail.com</a>&quot;
                    &lt;<a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">stollman.j@gmail.com</a>&gt;,
                    &quot;<a href="mailto:afesta@alfweb.com" target="_blank">afesta@alfweb.com</a>&quot;
                    &lt;<a href="mailto:afesta@alfweb.com" target="_blank">afesta@alfweb.com</a>&gt;<br>
                    <b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href="mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org</a>&quot;
                    &lt;<a href="mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org</a>&gt;<br>
                    <b>Subject: </b>Re: [DG-IDoT] Common identity
                    standard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi
                          Jeff,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regarding
                          point 3. following thoughts:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         
                        </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The
                          owner, admin, or user of a thing has to
                          trigger an update…their might be services that
                          do the update on behalf</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         
                        </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">In
                          general we need an update mechanism, if e.g.
                          an owner changes, it should be changed in
                          discovery/search...not a big deal. Isn’ it? </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                          <a href="mailto:dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org</a>
                          [<a href="mailto:dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">mailto:dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org</a>]
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>j stollman</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 24. Juli 2015 19:21<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Alessandro Festa<br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [DG-IDoT] Common
                              identity standard<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I am with Alessandro
                                in the complexity of this solution in
                                the real world.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <ol start="1" type="1">
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">An
                                    iPhone is a collection of IoT
                                    devices (camera, audio recorder,
                                    touch screen, telephone, computer,
                                    etc.).  Should each of these have
                                    its own &quot;good key pair&quot;?  If not how
                                    do we handle the sale of just the
                                    camera by the same OEM who sells the
                                    camera to Apple?  Do we need a way
                                    to aggregate devices?<u></u><u></u></span></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Separately,
                                    what constitutes a &quot;good key pair&quot;? 
                                    Will all of the many unenlightened,
                                    non-high-tech manufacturers in the
                                    world participate?  What is the
                                    likelihood that they will create
                                    duplicate key pairs when there are
                                    billions of devices?  We tend to
                                    consider that we are servicing an
                                    environment where everyone is paying
                                    attention to international
                                    standards.  Standards in markets as
                                    broad as we are discussion take
                                    decades to become pervasive.  How
                                    many types of screws do we have?  It
                                    isn&#39;t just metric versus &quot;standard.&quot;
                                     Screws differ in diameter, pitch,
                                    head shape (flat, pan, etc.), and
                                    driver type (straight blade,
                                    phillips, head, star, etc.).  And
                                    then there are custom screws.  In
                                    IoT we will have hobbyist-types
                                    creating devices, along with
                                    old-line manufacturers.  It isn&#39;t
                                    just an Apply and Samsung world.<u></u><u></u></span></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">To
                                    Ingo&#39;s comment about relationships,
                                    how do we track changes in those
                                    relationships without creating a
                                    massive infrastructure?  What
                                    happens when company A has a device
                                    that is used by employees A1, A2,
                                    and A3, sells the device to company
                                    B for use by B7, B8, and B9?<u></u><u></u></span></li>
                              </ol>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br clear="all">
                                <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">---------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Jeff
                                        Stollman<br>
                                        <a href="mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com" target="_blank">stollman.j@gmail.com</a><br>
                                        <a href="tel:1%20202.683.8699" target="_blank">1 202.683.8699</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;background:white">Truth
                                          never triumphs — its opponents
                                          just die out.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;background:white">Science
                                          advances one funeral at a
                                          time.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;background:white"> 
                                                                       
                                              Max Planck</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Fri, Jul 24,
                                  2015 at 7:34 AM, Alessandro Festa &lt;<a href="mailto:afesta@alfweb.com" target="_blank">afesta@alfweb.com</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi
                                        Nat,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">related
                                        to the private key embeded by
                                        manufacturer I am wondering who
                                        would embed what in the case of
                                        a multi-manufacturer.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">use
                                        case:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1)
                                        thing created by original
                                        manufacturer : embed a priv key</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">2)
                                        thing crafted/customized (oem)
                                        by second manufacturer : embed a
                                        priv key</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">when
                                        thing will need to act on behalf
                                        I expect to reflect a 1 to many
                                        relationship at this point and
                                        so I&#39;ll need as user to decide
                                        the degree of relationship
                                        between the various keys or only
                                        one single key pair will be
                                        allowed and this means we need
                                        to define a hierarchical policy
                                        to decide who will embed what.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I
                                        immagine an onion ring model
                                        based on user consent and
                                        relationship constrain: user to
                                        seller, seller to manufacturer
                                        (original or oem), manufacturer
                                        (oem) to manufacturer</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Alex</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Alessandro
                                        Festa </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">website:<a href="http://alfweb.com" target="_blank">http://alfweb.com</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">twitter:@festaatdell</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href="mailto:email%3Aafesta@alfweb.com" target="_blank">email:afesta@alfweb.com</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Il
                                              Venerdì 24 Luglio 2015
                                              13:10, Paul Madsen &lt;<a href="mailto:pmadsen@pingidentity.com" target="_blank">pmadsen@pingidentity.com</a>&gt;
                                              ha scritto:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010ff 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi
                                                    nat, I would follow
                                                    on to your steps
                                                    below</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On
                                                      7/24/15 4:56 AM,
                                                      Nat Sakimura
                                                      wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Yeah,
                                                        it is nice, but
                                                        WSDL would be
                                                        too big.  </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Remember
                                                          that sending 1
                                                          byte over the
                                                          radio takes as
                                                          much power as
                                                          encrypting
                                                          1000 bytes.
                                                          Also, memory
                                                          and processing
                                                          power is
                                                          becoming
                                                          cheap, so in
                                                          IoT context,
                                                          we should
                                                          probably treat
                                                          &quot;minimizing
                                                          the radio
                                                          packet&quot; as the
                                                          priority. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As
                                                          to the
                                                          identification
                                                          of the things
                                                          are cocerned,
                                                          the viable
                                                          model that I
                                                          imagine is as
                                                          follows: </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <ol start="1" type="1">
                                                        <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The
                                                          device
                                                          manufacutrer
                                                          creates a good
                                                          keypair and
                                                          embeds the
                                                          private key
                                                          (and its key
                                                          thumbprint) in
                                                          the device. </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></li>
                                                        <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">For
                                                          device
                                                          authentication,
                                                          use the key to
                                                          sign the
                                                          message. </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></li>
                                                      </ol>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">When
                                                    acting on behalf of
                                                    a user<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    3. Authenticated
                                                    user facilitates
                                                    delivery of tokens
                                                    to device<br>
                                                    4. Device
                                                    authenticates to AS
                                                    using embedded keys
                                                    in order to obtain
                                                    tokens<br>
                                                    5. Device uses
                                                    tokens to
                                                    authenticate to
                                                    cloud endpoints,
                                                    other device etc<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    Tokens thereby
                                                    reflect
                                                    &#39;relationship&#39; of
                                                    user &amp; device</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nat</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">2015-07-22
                                                          1:33 GMT+09:00
                                                          Aninda Bhunia
                                                          &lt;<a href="mailto:abhunia@inc38.com" target="_blank">abhunia@inc38.com</a>&gt;:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">It
                                                          would be
                                                          interesting if
                                                          we could
                                                          create a
                                                          standard that
                                                          would allow
                                                          even non IP
                                                          devices to
                                                          publish their
                                                          identity
                                                          through a wsdl
                                                          type
                                                          structure.
                                                          Even if they
                                                          are non IP at
                                                          some point in
                                                          their upwards
                                                          relationship
                                                          hierarchy
                                                          their master
                                                          gateway would
                                                          be IP based
                                                          and could be
                                                          responsible
                                                          for publishing
                                                          the identity
                                                          wsdls for the
                                                          entities it
                                                          brokers.<br>
                                                          Thoughts ?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On
                                                          Jul 21, 2015
                                                          11:52 AM,
                                                          &quot;Joni Brennan&quot;
                                                          &lt;<a href="mailto:joni@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">joni@kantarainitiative.org</a>&gt;
                                                          wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Noting
                                                          I have no vote
                                                          =) </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I
                                                          agree with
                                                          Paul and
                                                          others
                                                          regarding
                                                          discovery as
                                                          the key
                                                          initial
                                                          mechanism.  I
                                                          believe Ingo
                                                          has also noted
                                                          this in the
                                                          summaries from
                                                          IDoT.  Sal
                                                          mentions NMAP
                                                          / SNMP are
                                                          there other
                                                          exiting
                                                          approaches?
                                                           (apologies if
                                                          this has been
                                                          discussed in
                                                          detail
                                                          already)</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-
                                                          Joni</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br clear="all">
                                                          </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Best
                                                          Regards,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br clear="all">
                                                          Joni Brennan<br>
                                                          Kantara
                                                          Initiative |
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director<br>
                                                          email: joni @
                                                          <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/" target="_blank">kantarainitiative.org</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Connecting
                                                          Identity for a
                                                          more
                                                          trustworthy
                                                          Internet - <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/kantarainitiative/kantara-overview2014-37969351" target="_blank">Overview</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On
                                                          Tue, Jul 21,
                                                          2015 at 8:42
                                                          AM, Salvatore
                                                          D&#39;Agostino
                                                          &lt;<a href="mailto:sal@idmachines.com" target="_blank">sal@idmachines.com</a>&gt;
                                                          wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Other
                                                          than ip
                                                          devices?  In
                                                          that case
                                                          there are
                                                          mechanisms
                                                          support
                                                          scanning ( eg
                                                          NMAP) or SNMP
                                                          that have been
                                                          around for a
                                                          while these
                                                          are typically
                                                          not exactly
                                                          API friendly
                                                          but do provide
                                                          a starting
                                                          point and we
                                                          make good use
                                                          in our
                                                          offerings.</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Salvatore
                                                          D&#39;Agostino </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">IDmachines
                                                          LLC |1264
                                                          Beacon Street,
                                                          #5 </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Brookline,
                                                          MA. 02446
                                                          | USA</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href="http://www.idmachines.com/" target="_blank">http://www.idmachines.com</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
                                                          On Jul 21,
                                                          2015, at 10:46
                                                          AM, Paul
                                                          Madsen &lt;<a href="mailto:pmadsen@pingidentity.com" target="_blank">pmadsen@pingidentity.com</a>&gt;
                                                          wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">(one
                                                          of) what is
                                                          needed is a
                                                          standardized
                                                          mechanism for
                                                          devices to
                                                          present their
                                                          identity (and
                                                          those humans
                                                          for which they
                                                          are acting) to
                                                          other things,
                                                          cloud
                                                          endpoints
                                                          &amp;
                                                          applications<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On
                                                          7/16/15 2:38
                                                          PM, Ranjan
                                                          Jain (ranjain)
                                                          wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hey
                                                          y’all,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hope
                                                          everyone is
                                                          doing well.
                                                          Just wanted to
                                                          bounce a
                                                          question which
                                                          I’m
                                                          consistently
                                                          getting asked
                                                          around
                                                          Identity, IoT
                                                          perspective.
                                                          Is there any
                                                          industry
                                                          standard in
                                                          place or in
                                                          works which
                                                          can be used as
                                                          a common
                                                          standard
                                                          across
                                                          multiple
                                                          identities.
                                                          What I mean by
                                                          this is that
                                                          humans have
                                                          SSN as an
                                                          identity while
                                                          a thermostat
                                                          may have
                                                          serial number
                                                          while a
                                                          network device
                                                          may have a Mac
                                                          ID as their
                                                          identity. So,
                                                          while
                                                          individually
                                                          they all have
                                                          their own
                                                          identity
                                                          standard, when
                                                          in the IoT
                                                          world, all
                                                          these entities
                                                          start
                                                          interacting
                                                          with each
                                                          other, how do
                                                          we translate
                                                          one identity
                                                          into another
                                                          or how will
                                                          one identity
                                                          interact with
                                                          another
                                                          identity in a
                                                          standards way?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Ranjan</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <table style="width:407.25pt" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="543">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                                          <table style="width:407.25pt" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="543">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td colspan="3" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 18.0pt" nowrap valign="top">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#666666">Ranjan
                                                          Jain</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#666666"><br>
                                                          <a href="http://architect.it/" target="_blank">ARCHITECT.IT</a><br>
                                                          Information
                                                          Technology<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:ranjain@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#666666;text-decoration:none">ranjain@cisco.com</span></a><br>
                                                          Phone: <strong><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href="tel:%2B1%20408%20853%204396" target="_blank">+1 408 853 4396</a></span></strong><br>
                                                          Mobile: <strong><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href="tel:%2B1%20408%20627%209538" target="_blank">+1 408 627 9538</a></span></strong></span><u></u><u></u></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          <td style="width:50.0%;padding:11.25pt 0cm 7.5pt 15.0pt" valign="top" width="50%">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#666666">Cisco
                                                          Systems, Inc.</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#666666"><br>
                                                          400 East
                                                          Tasman Drive<br>
                                                          San Jose<br>
                                                          California<br>
                                                          95134<br>
                                                          United States<br>
                                                          <a href="http://www.cisco.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#666666;text-decoration:none">Cisco.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td colspan="3" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
                                                          <table style="width:300.0pt" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="400">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td style="padding:3.75pt 15.0pt 0cm 18.0pt">
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#009900"> Think
                                                          before you
                                                          print.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td style="padding:5.25pt 15.0pt 4.5pt 18.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">This
                                                          email may
                                                          contain
                                                          confidential
                                                          and privileged
                                                          material for
                                                          the sole use
                                                          of the
                                                          intended
                                                          recipient. Any
                                                          review, use,
                                                          distribution
                                                          or disclosure
                                                          by others is
                                                          strictly
                                                          prohibited. If
                                                          you are not
                                                          the intended
                                                          recipient (or
                                                          authorized to
                                                          receive for
                                                          the
                                                          recipient),
                                                          please contact
                                                          the sender by
                                                          reply email
                                                          and delete all
                                                          copies of this
                                                          message.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">DG-IDoT mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          DG-IDoT
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          DG-IDoT
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          DG-IDoT
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          DG-IDoT
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                        </div>
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                                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
                                                          <br clear="all">
                                                          </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--
                                                          </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nat
                                                          Sakimura
                                                          (=nat) </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Chairman,
                                                          OpenID
                                                          Foundation<br>
                                                          <a href="http://nat.sakimura.org/" target="_blank">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a><br>
                                                          @_nat_en</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                      <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                      <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">DG-IDoT mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                      <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                      <pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
                                                      DG-IDoT mailing
                                                      list<br>
                                                      <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                                      <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                  DG-IDoT mailing list<br>
                                  <a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a><br>
                                  <a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
DG-IDoT mailing list
<a href="mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org" target="_blank">DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org</a>
<a href="http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot" target="_blank">http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot</a><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></pre><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
    </font></span></blockquote><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
    <br>
    <div>-- <br>
      
      
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            <td valign="top"><a href="http://www.forgerock.com/" target="_blank"><img src="cid:part49.03060301.05040708@forgerock.com" alt="ForgeRock" border="0" height="70" width="185"></a></td>
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              <strong>Simon Moffatt</strong><br>
              Solutions Director  |  Sales Engineering  |  ForgeRock<br>
              <span style="color:#7fb7aa"><strong>tel</strong></span>
              <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207903%20347%20240" value="+447903347240" target="_blank">+44 (0) 7903 347 240</a>  |  <span style="color:#7fb7aa"><strong>e</strong></span>
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              <span style="color:#7fb7aa"><strong>skype</strong></span>
              simon.moffatt  |  <span style="color:#7fb7aa"><strong>web</strong></span>
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  </font></span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>